Ben Devenish, MD of Vantage Wealth Management | Best Accountants Near Me Podcast (Filmed Feb '26)

Watch on SavvyWise YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNfHr4VzKX0

[00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of The Best Accountant Near Me Powered by SavvyWise, the AI for tax research and more. I'm Drew Pflaum, CPA with 14 years experience in public practice accounting, and about half that time working as a director in an accounting firm. But today is not about me. It's about you, your audience, and our guest.

It's about you searching for a great financial advisor, whether for yourself or for your clients. So without any further ado, I'm honored to be joined by Ben Devenish. Thanks, Drew. Absolute pleasure to be here, and what a fantastic setup. You know, it makes a, a big difference to the, the four walls of the office with some nice plants and whatnot around.

So, fantastic. Thanks for having me. I, I'm glad y- yeah, you like the place. Um, so it's by botanic, everyone, that we're sitting in, a wonderful, uh, inner city Perth haven for the people, uh, who love their b- botanicals, including rare and hard-to-find plants, as well as quality home wares [00:01:00] and coffee. Yeah, beautiful.

Oh, I love the coffee, right? Can't live without it. So, mate, um, a bit about yourself. You're the MD of Vantage Wealth Management. Yep. Yeah, we're a, uh, self-licensed, privately owned, employee-owned, uh, holistic wealth management business. Uh, we've got 30 staff, uh, 10 advisors in that 30. We run about $1.5 billion of client portfolio money that's advised.

That's achieved. Yeah, it's, uh, but that's taken, you know, 20 years to, to build. Yeah. Um, we've got three key principals in Frank, Matt, and Tim, uh, and then an advice team that, uh, handles everything, you know, from insurance matters, uh, a lot of investment work, uh, and really dovetail into the areas of specialties that, you know, the accounting, the accounting world and our accounting friends, uh, take care of, uh, for their clients.

Yeah, so that's why you're, you're here today- Mm ... 'cause, uh, [00:02:00] obviously the Best Accountant Near Me, uh, podcast. Uh- Sure ... I'm the accountant here, but you help the accountants out very much, so that's what we're gonna focus on, uh, throughout the conversation 'cause you've been working with accountants for, uh, how many years is it now, mate?

Oh, geez. Well, let's say 35. 35 years, yeah. Uh, through, through, um, you know, being in the, in the wealth business. And, and yeah, listen, um, you know, we like to make ourselves, uh, or position ourselves so that we just make the accounting, uh, tax compliance, tax advisory service, um, as seamless and as, and as efficient as possible, uh, by bringing in, you know, the investment piece and the insurance piece.

And then there's a middle ground of, of strategic advice that, uh, we share. Uh, and yeah, that's, that's... We like to, we like to bring the tax-related investment and insurance issues to accountants with a nice bow on it to make their life as, as easy as possible, and I guess that's where your segue's gonna be into, you know, the [00:03:00] digital world and AI and, and so forth.

Yeah. So, yeah, on that point, like, uh, all those years you're working with accountants, tell us about some of the changes that you've seen, uh, for your, your friends, the accountants, and how that's- Yeah ... impacted you as financial advisors, and then the other way around. Yeah. I mean, historically we worked at a, at an end of financial year siloed handover, um, type process.

Yeah. You know, information going one way or the other after the fact. Uh, you know, if we cut to the chase, the, the enablement of, of, of data to be moving seamlessly between tax systems and in- and investment systems or investment systems into tax systems has meant that we're really m- we're, we're working in a real-time capacity now with our accounting, uh, networks, uh, you know, as they feed through into self-managed super fund, you know, real-time member [00:04:00] balances throughout the year.

Um, and then at the end of the year, that, uh, that tax compliance lodgement process is really just press of the button stuff rather than downing tools and let's just try and get things done paper-based before due by dates. So, um, now there's, there's a, there's a, there's a, a big array of, of accountants out there with different capability sets and, and, and, and objectives in terms of what they're looking to try and get through with their business.

So that's, that's interesting to, to be a part of as well. Well, I suppose let's touch upon that part. So in the accounting industry, there's sole practitioners- Yeah ... really small firms, just a couple team members, partners. Uh, then they start growing similar size to yourself- Yeah ... Vantage, and then obviously even bigger ones, 100 accountants, 200 accountants.

Do you sit across helping all these types of firms, or is there like an ideal firm that, uh, [00:05:00] that you work with? How's it all- Yeah ... come together? It, it typically mid-tier firms and below are, are the ones that we work best with. Um, uh, and yeah, so where they, uh, have a limited, you know, pool of, of resource in, in their own business, uh, obviously they may not have wealth advisory in their businesses re- al-already.

So- Well, that's probably more and more these days with all the financial licensing- Yeah ... requirements. Yeah. Y- An accountant has to go through so much to be registered themselves. Yeah, they do, particularly obviously when it comes to superannuation and self-managed super funds. But once you start getting beyond that, around the strategic advice with respect to trusts, companies, structures, how do we, how do we take that risk management, forward-thinking, strategic role with our clients?

When I say our clients, your clients. Um, and how do we manage [00:06:00] costs, uh, in relation to that? So that, that's how we work really, really closely with some of our accounting networks is, is in that cost management, risk management space, and that's the dovetail into our insurance advisory, um, service, which is, which is, which is a part of our wealth management, um, offer- Yeah

beyond the investment piece, and we'll get to that in a moment. Like let-let's try and- uh, dive in to give it like a really easy to understand concrete example for our listeners. Like, 'cause strategy is like, okay, what is strategy? Mm. Uh, but I think it's, in terms of what we wanna get the best out of for the client, right?

Yeah. So is it we're considering specifically what is their risk profile in terms of how aggressive or not to go with the investment? Sure. Which sets like the return you wanna go and get, and a, a complete good understanding around that. Because otherwise, I hear people talk about, they just go, "Oh, my investment's gone [00:07:00] 7% this year, but the, the stock market's gone 20%."

Sure. "Oh, your, your financial advisor must be doing no good." Yeah. But I'm like... I'm always like, "That's not the case," because different risk profiles- Sure ... means you're targeting something differently. Yeah. And, and if we talk about self-managed super funds specifically maybe- Yeah. Go for it ... um, a- a- and, and the investment strategies that must be formulated and documented, documented there, uh, a- and the sort of underlying assets that those investment strategies need to be tuned towards.

Um, clearly if you've got a, a big pot of, uh, direct commercial property or, or direct property, well you'll be tuning your investment strategy so that it relates to that. You know, our investment strategy's gonna be up to 100% in direct property with sufficient liquidity to be able to fund raise. And you wouldn't necessarily specify a, a performance objective in there with that type of strategy maybe.

But then when you start talking about more [00:08:00] mainstream investing, you know, into, you know, shares and, uh, term deposits and, and cash based, and the sort of assets that we might get involved in, well, yeah, we, we then do start setting some pretty prescriptive forward-looking, uh, performance objectives, and they typically come back to, uh, an inflation plus basis.

Yeah. We take the, the, the position that our clients would take, and that is if we're investing and we can't beat- The interest that you can get out of your bank at a risk-free rate, well, then we're all wasting our time, right? Now, now typically bank interest will, will, will roll around inflation and a margin on top of that.

You know, we, we currently see, um, short-term rates, you know, high threes, um, term deposits, cash rates. Well, guess what? They're around three, four percent, [00:09:00] uh, depending on, on how you bank it. So my point is, um, for very conservative strategies, you know, we set a CPI plus small margin, and then as soon as you start bringing in market-related risks, market-related volatility, we want to get compensated for that through an extra return.

Yeah. So that's when we start moving inflation plus two percent, inflation plus four percent, inflation plus six percent, and so forth. So we have a really structured outcome that we're looking for, uh, and build portfolios to achieve that, but then make sure a client and whoever else is involved in the, in the client world understands what that means in terms of ups and downs and volatility along the way.

So who's explaining that to the client? 'Cause I, I, if I'm sitting back, I'm going, "Oh yeah, I'm the, I'm the accountant for my clients." Yeah. I might tend to wanna go, "I wanna control the narrative." Sure. A- and, and that's, that's fine because [00:10:00] again, conceptually talking about these performance-related issues, you're not talking about securities, you're not talking about shares, you're not talking about...

You're talking with your client about where they're looking to get to. The problem is, is that the conversation then progresses to, "Okay, well, how do I get there?" You know, "What's the... On a risk-adjusted basis, what's the, what's the best way for me to get there?" And that's when it's, "Well, uh, you know, I need to, I need to sort of limit the conversation because I can't start talking to you about securities and-" Yep

and so forth. And that, and that's, that's where we step in. Um- So when you step in, is that separately- Oh, we- ... or together? We, we, we work however, um, you know, our accountant, uh, c- connections want us to work. You know, their office, our office, them in the room, them not in the room. Do they wanna be... You know, a- and, and again, that varies with every practice.

On, on like a Zoom, a Teams. So Zoom, Teams, however it's- [00:11:00] Clients across Australia. Yeah, that's right, and, and, and globally, so. Globally, yeah. Um, and again, we think back to, to COVID, which, you know, um, brought about all sorts of, you know, long-term stresses and anxieties and things that people can say. But really, the way that fast-tracked us into this, this digital engagement world- Yeah

um, has been amazing, and opened up so much, uh, opportunity. Um, you know, I, I, I think all of us were, were really nervous when it came to getting in front of a camera or, uh, talking over the phone by, by video and, uh, but now it's just water off a duck's back. Yep. Um- I giggle because my wife... I always go, "Yeah, it's just waters off a duck's back," and my wife hates me saying that term.

Oh, sorry. Yeah. Well, to be honest, which is one that my wife always, you know, goes... Anyway, so let's- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... let's, let's not go there, otherwise- Yeah, let's not go there . Well, I don't think the wives are gonna be watching this, to be honest with you. Anyway, [00:12:00] sorry. Uh, uh, yeah. So, um- You know, I, when I was, uh, at Munro's- Yep

uh, I would get clients of all different backgrounds, like different stages of life. And some would go, like, "When, when is the right time to talk with a financial advisor?" Sure. Right? Under what circumstances? Yeah. Like, maybe they might wanna talk to a financial advisor, uh, but you guys have got so much regulation and everything that basically there's a point in time where it's just cost prohibitive.

Yeah. Unfortunately, you can't. So how does an accountant that's, that's watching, uh, this podcast understand when to help their clients get the involvement of a financial advisor? Well, I, I guess it's, it's, it's when that family person is ready to take their money seriously. Um, because we're all guilty of having dreams and ambitions and, [00:13:00] uh, we're gonna do things.

Um, but, uh, it's the minority that actually take the real firm steps to, to make that happen. You know, when I think about our client base, and, and it's similar to other wealth business client bases, you know, I guess we're fortunate compared to, to, to the accounting world where we don't have to s- not everybody has to, uh, see a wealth advisor or financial advisor.

Everybody's gotta put a tax return in, right? Yes. Um, so, you know, we're fortunate in being able to, um, cut the wheat from the chaff early days with people that aren't really genuinely serious about doing what they need to do to get to where they say they wanna get to. I mean, we, we think about our- So- Sorry.

On that, like, how can an accountant help identify that? So 'cause, like, one question I had was, like, someone's asking to be a financial advisor- Mm ... uh, to, to see a financial advisor- Yeah ... as a client. And I'm [00:14:00] like, you know, refer over to you guys. I know you do great work, but I don't wanna send you people who aren't gonna be a good fit for you.

No. So how do we, how do you, like, sort of best- Like, tell accountants this, this is what you need to look out for. They're not ready to take this seriously. Yeah. It's... Well, we, we've got some pretty prescriptive, I guess, reference sheets that we... And that just takes time. It just takes time in our relationship and seeing the sort of work that we do.

I mean, our skill base is, is in being able to handle that conversation and, and we're able to, I guess, add value to the accountant through, through helping that person really work through what they're looking to try and, try to achieve. You know, if it's a young family, um, and, and so if I take a step back, t- people typically see an adviser when they have a life event or some sort of [00:15:00] epiphany.

Um, whether it's we've now stepped up into the big mortgage and we've got some children on the way, or I've just had a, you know, the promotion that I've been looking and gunning for for a long time, uh, into a senior associate position or a senior manager position and so forth. You know- An inheritance.

Inheritance, you know, the, the events, inheritances, um, you know, the, the family splits, you know, selling a business, sold a big property asset, so on. So there's typically an event where, um, someone has a realization that, uh, this is getting beyond their, you know, their capability set. And in some respects, you know, they may want someone to validate.

So we, you know, our clients, uh, as I say, take their money seriously and they wanna make-- they, they want validation. You know, they're really conscientious about doing the right thing, um, and- No [00:16:00] doubt ... so- Willing to listen ... and prepared to take advice. Yeah. And pay for it, right? So but, uh - That's a good one too, yeah

well, it's, well, it's a critical issue and, and again- It is, yeah ... that's where we can, as I say, sort the wheat from the chaff, take on that, that consult role where a client of, of an accountant might say, "Hey, listen, you know, I, I, I think I need to get my insurances sorted out," right? Or, um, "Is my super fund, you know, doing what it should be doing?"

Or, uh, "Yeah, I'm about to get this x hundred thousand dollar inheritance and I'm not quite sure what to do with it." Now, structurally, strategically, the accountant can say, "Well, there's gonna be tax issues here. We might need to think about family trusts." Absolutely your super fund, you know, is one of the most tax protect, tax protected concessionally tax frameworks to use.

But pulling all of that together and then where do we invest it is where, you know, we now hand over and work closely with, um, [00:17:00] uh, the likes of Vantage. Um, because, you know, we can keep the accountants as in the loop as they'd like to be or out of the loop. Again, everyone's different in terms of how much they wanna run the strategic advice agenda, uh, or not.

So, um- Uh, everyone's different in terms, every accounting firm's different ... yeah. Because fundamentally a, a financial advisor exists because of their licensing. Right. The AFSL, which means, it, you know, we can advise on investment securities and insurance products and then there's a whole bunch of strategic things that sit over the top of that.

If that makes sense. Whether- Yes. It starts to feel overwhelming from, like, an accounting point of view going, if you, if, uh, you were trying to deliver all that service in-house. Yeah. Well, it's interesting, you know, over the years, so back to, I think your first question, you know, how we, how we see now our engagement with accountants over the years, and we've always, we've, [00:18:00] we've worked

'Cause accountants, 20% of their base, you know, they really focus on forward-thinking, strategic advisory, blah, blah, blah, small business clients or larger private clients that need tax work. You know, the next 80% becomes a real sort of process, commodity-driven, you know, let's get this tax compliance work done as efficiently as possible.

Yeah. With respect. Uh, and you know, that's exactly how. And so we come in probably for that middle 50% where the accountant's just too stretched in terms of their strategic advisory space on that top 20%. There's another 50% of their base that is crying out for a bit more strategic forward-thinking, um, advice.

That's, that's where we come in. Um, uh, and then, you know, maybe there's some, some work to do at the top end, but- Um, and it, and it just works really well. Yet once people get comfortable with how they flow and- Yeah ... um, the sort of works that come out. [00:19:00] Like, what's it look like to an accounting f- do you reach out to accounting firms to work with them?

Do, do they reach out to you? How's... Like, how does this work? Well, um, I guess we, we like to think of ourselves as the, the best-kept secret in town. Um, hey, listen, we look after 700 client families. Um, we've got a commitment to them. We've got a commitment to their professional advisors. Um, and then we make ourselves available for new work, so that would typically come through those networks.

See, you know, we're not out there knocking on doors. We're not out there, um, you know, we, as, as is, uh, most of the, most of the listeners, um, viewers, uh, you know, you're busy enough. But, but, but what, what we want to do is, I'm sure, you know, the, the viewers are trying to do, is to make sure that your client, you know, is ring-fenced and have, have good quality, um, [00:20:00] professional services wherever they turn.

Mortgage broking, uh, wealth management, tax advisory, legal support. Um, you get your little ecosystem of quality personal professional advisors, and, um, you don't need much else. Mm. Uh, so that's, that's, that's where we sit in with that, that, that... Well, we try and position ourselves anyway. Mm. So, like, on, on quality, one aspect of that is actually doing the work, right?

Yeah. Let's turn our attention to, say, the technologies- Yeah ... that you use. And I know Vantage went through some incredible automation work. Yeah. Um, well, leading, I would say, in, in that aspect. Like Munro's, thanks to, like, you guys going through and doing the automation, was like, "Oh, wow, we need to do that."

Sure. Can you tell us s- some about that journey? Yeah, I guess there's, there's, there's back office technologies and there's front of house technologies. Um, you know, we started back of house, which [00:21:00] was, um, looking at our, our revenue reconciliation and, uh, how that feeds through to our, our financial statements.

Uh-huh. And try to take as much friction and bring in scalability. And by that I mean we, you know, we have 700 family accounts of which there's, you know, there's 1,500, uh, revenue accounts that sit below that. Um, now it's one thing to just report on your revenue as a lump, but it's another thing to be able to try and get look through as to where the revenue's coming from, who's producing it, as it is on the cost side.

So, so, you know, the accounting system and the financial reporting system that we use, and I'm, I'm happy to call that out, of, uh, Odoo and Asato, um, have been fantastic. Now they're just alternates to your Xeros and, and some of the other mainstream providers, but they've been very good to us, particularly as we've put in our, uh, robotic processes, um, to run some of the reven- revenue [00:22:00] reconciliation that, that occurs.

Yeah. Give us like a really discrete example, 'cause some people listening would... They don't know what, what is a robotic process? RPA? Yeah. Uh, well it's essentially just pre-programming a, a, a computer to go through a set of functions. Uh- So what would be that set of functions? Okay. So for us on the insurances- Yeah

you know, we have 10 insurance underwriters that pay our business commission for the policies. Now, there are 10 underwriters and we have close to 1,200 client policies associated with those. Now historically we've had commission statements come from the likes of Zurich- That contains a list of clients that that commission relates to So it's like a PDF or an Excel file?

Exactly. Now, that's sitting in their online site. So our, our robot goes up to Zurich, downloads our commission statement Opens up the browser ... opens up the browser Goes to the right page Goes through the, the multi-factors, [00:23:00] um- The multi-factors. Yeah, yeah, yeah ... multi-factor auth, goes through that process, downloads the statement, reads the statement, looks at client policy numbers, reconciles that to our internal, uh, client- Yeah

uh, our CRM system, allocates that to client accounts, can connect and re- and reconcile that commission amount to our bank account, uh, and then put that into our journaling for revenue received. So that, and that happens- It's got document, grab the document Yeah ... grab the document, check other stuff Yeah

open up other documents, gone, "Yep, these match." Yeah. Put this over here. Yeah Ticket. Yeah All without human intervention. That's it. Uh, now- And how long would it normally take a human to do that? Well, we had a bookkeeper that was getting taken out to th- that we, we, we had engaged for two days a week. Um, I'm going back five years now, five years, and that, her role was starting to blow out to three days, four [00:24:00] days, because of all of these manual reconciling.

We brought the robotics in and, and that, that one function is happening across 15 different external financial institutions. Um, so her role is now back to, in terms of those- Pretty basic, uh, functions is back to one day a week. Um, and now that extra day she's now spending on, you know, extending out the financial reporting and cross-checking and doing those high-level functions.

Um, and we've doubled the client base. Wow. So double your client base, reduce their capability- Holy cow ... capability. Yeah, it's amazing. So- So basically if she wasn't... If you hadn't got the automation, she would've probably been out to full-time work week. She... Well, yeah, she just wouldn't have... It, it's, it's a function- And you're, you're saying-

that no one in this day and age would wanna be performing. You don't wanna do it. So she wouldn't be with us anymore. Yep. You make a very good point. You know? Yeah. And, and, and, and I guess looping back through to the AI and, and where where I, managing director, [00:25:00] sitting on the business, you know, we're, we're recruiting.

You know, we've got 15 people in our professional team, 15 in admin, corporate and so on. The 15 in the ad- in the professional team, you know, the young, the young grads, you know, if you can't demonstrate, you know, a progressive, uh, digital strategies, they're just not even gonna take a seat. So- Yeah. Okay ... to the wider, to the wider application of the SavvyWise and other, um, different AI bots that we plug in and we're trying to get some really, I mean, uh, front of house processes going.

Yeah. That's, that's where... That's really exciting. So, so is it the attraction in the first place to even get them to put in the, the re- resume? To go, "I wanna work for you"? Well, it, it's difficult for them to know what they're getting into until they get into the business. To the end. And, but then, you know, the smart ones and, and- Yeah, big, big around retention is- Yeah

the fact that you don't want your team [00:26:00] members doing mundane stuff like, no, that people just don't enjoy. Absolutely. Plus- Yeah ... the robotics, the automation can do it that much quicker anyway. Absolutely. And the way that de-risks the data flow through the business, you know, where- Yeah ... we're recording- More protection, yeah

transcribing, uh, you know, every exchange with a client. Now, um, you know, the quality that that has been able to deliver to our end advice is just incredible. You know, the things that we talk about in our planning conversation, uh, that might get missed, that a transcription will bring through and say, "Hey, listen, you know, these are the, these are the key strategic issues that we may have talked about."

So now we're talking about an AI that's got, like, been involved in the meeting- Yeah ... by some recording. That's it. And then, like, like right now, we're having a talk. Yeah. We can put this into an AI and it'll- Right ... transcribe it for us. It'd clean it up a lot. Yeah. But, [00:27:00] um, that's right. So we've got- Work through all that free amount of doctor's talk, eh?

So we've got ex- exactly. We've, um, 'cause we've got a lot of compliance obligations around making sure clients understand the advice we're gonna deliver and how it's gonna cost and, and the disclosures, and having the conversation and so forth. And that- that's just easy to miss when you're making file notes about, you know, the important stuff of, of- Ah, right

how we're gonna invest money. So for that to get taken care of by the black box, uh, but then, you know, what happens after that conversation? You know, there's, there's a lot of data we need to update in our system. Yeah. And a lot of the times that can get missed through file noting. Uh, there's action points that need to occur.

Yeah. You know, there's, there's action items that different people in the business need to take care of. So, so the quality, the quality outcome where nothing can get missed has just been a game changer for us. Um- Yeah. On that, uh, how do you deal with confidentiality? [00:28:00] You've had a meeting, you're talking about client affairs.

Yeah. How's, how's Vantage a- Well- ... approached- Yeah ... this issue? Yeah. Well, I mean, we work within the Microsoft 365 environment. Yep. So we're as exposed as, um, any business is with their SharePoint- Yeah ... basically. Yeah, if we're using SharePoint, we're using Cloud, um, you know, that's where that information, highly, highly sensitive information is, is contained.

We've got, um, well, like, let's, for example, the AI note taker. Yeah. That's, um, I, I know you can do that in Teams- Yes ... but I think that some of your team members have also tried some other ones at times. Yeah. Yeah. Like, how did you approach assessing... I think the AI note taker, it was like- Oh, listen, there are-

a huge amount on the market. How do you work out, okay, which one of these is gonna be good for us to use from a security point of view? Well- 'Cause I'm sure accountants that are, are listening are going, "Well, I've got the same"- Yeah ... same thing [00:29:00] to consider through." No, absolutely, and that's where we need our external experts, our managed services people, our- Okay

cybersecurity- Yeah ... um, experts to assess the technical frameworks that they're using, of which most wouldn't pass muster. Yeah. Um, our license is on the line from a pr- privacy perspective. Um, you know, our license is on the line, uh, from a, a confidentiality and a systems integrity perspective. So, um, you know, whenever we are looking to bring any kind of external tech in, um, you know, I know that I'm putting everybody's, um, livelihoods at risk, uh, if we cheap the, the...

select the cheapest option, um, at, or the quickest option and, and so on. So yeah, we don't, we don't put out there that we, uh, lead into, you know, technical or technology advances. We're very measured. Um, let other people make the mistakes first. [00:30:00] Yeah. Uh, but where we know that we can really bolt down the, the risk exposure to us and our clients, then, you know, bang, we'll, we'll explore that out.

We've changed our transcription interpreting service three times over the last year. Um- Yeah. Right. Yeah ... because, uh, you know, someone that, a, a business that was leading the market 12 months ago got usurped by Copilot and ChatGPT sitting in the back end- Yep ... and, uh, has now been usurped by another supplier that, that we're plugging in and trialing out.

And that, and that still enables us to perform business as usual amongst the team. So- Yeah. That's brilliant, like, because, um, there's so many firms, so many accountants I talk to are like, "Yeah, we don't wanna be in that bleeding edge. Let someone else make the mistakes." Yeah. "But we wanna be, you know, as close as possible"- Yes

"behind them." Um, but you've, like, really told a story of how actually you can be as close as possible. Like, you're changing- three times in, in that short period of [00:31:00] time- Yeah ... because you're adopting that- Yeah ... that latest technology. Whereas, um, yeah, I, I'm not sure accountants by and large are, are as quick movers.

Yeah. Well, I don't know about that. I guess, you know, our approach, my approach has always, has always been you need to be prepared to adapt, you know? I don't, I don't like that word pivot, but, uh, you know. Is that a mentality that's, like, really part of your- Yeah ... culture? I think you just gotta... I think so, and, you know, we call out being progressive as one of our key, um, our key, uh, value sets.

Uh- Yes. Okay ... m- but in a very measured way. You know, we can afford to do these things because we've got some scale. We've got some team members that can... So I, I'm a big believer in, yeah, you know, getting people in the business involved in these projects and, and initiatives. Um, and that's been fantastic, 'cause there's only so much I can do.

I'm just kinda controlling the traffic, if you like. Mm. Um, and so, yeah. And, and [00:32:00] again, that's where SavvyWise has been fantastic for me as, as, as a business leader, uh, you know, in terms of it as something that I can re- refer to and rely on without going and distracting, you know, our, our tax accountant on stuff that is just kind of basic GST query or, for me, basic anyway.

But, um- Yeah ... or, you know, some payroll queries or, you know, some HR queries or, you know, the stuff that SavvyWise is able to give to us now is, is, is amazing. Um- Cheers. I'm really pleased to hear that. Yeah. Yeah. Like, our goal is to eventually, yeah, get SavvyWise out more broadly across businesses and bookkeepers.

Yeah. Because the early days of when we were creating SavvyWise, we're talking with business owners, and they're like, "Mm- Help us with Fair Work if you're doing tax, please. And I knew as, uh, when I was at Munro's, I've got some clients sending me stuff that they've clearly used ChatGPT for. Yeah. And if I'm experiencing that and having to correct those errors, I was [00:33:00] like, accountants probably gonna get to a stage where it's like, "If you're gonna do your own research, please do it over here."

Sure. Save yours where you're gonna get a good answer and then get it checked with us. Yes. Um, like that, that future of how it comes about. And I... There's big opportunities in the financial advisory space too. Absolutely. No doubt. And, and we're talking about that obviously. And, and, um, the, uh... It, it's about trust, isn't it?

Yeah. Ultimately. And, and- Humans to humans relationships. Well, humans to humans relationships, but also if you've got a bot that's plugged in, uh, how can we get the, you know, trust that information that's coming to us? Trust that it's done the right things. That's it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, and happy to pay more for, um, qualified, more trustworthy, rather than stuff that's out there.

I mean, I, I mean, I've got, I've got, um, you know, three, you know, AI assistants there that, you know, I just turn on at the start of every day, you know? [00:34:00] SavvyWise. Yeah. My, my Copilot. Yeah. And Claude, you know? And- Yeah, okay. And I use each for different things. Yep. And, um, that's getting me into worlds that I probably shouldn't be in sometimes, you know?

You start thinking you're a, you're a, you know, you're a, a contracts lawyer, and you start thinking- Yeah ... you're into this. But, so you have to sort of bring yourself back and make sure you understand that it's just guidance, and you still need to refer to your specialists, right? Yes. But it's just getting rid of all of that nuisance work or guesswork, um, that, you know, we would've previously been fumbling around in.

So, yeah. You know. That's like not, you're going... Accountants looking out, they're going, "Man, I, I love this about RPA and automation." Mm. You're, like, what... How do, how do they go about doing that in their own firm? Like, how did you go about it? Oh, listen, I think... I mean, we, we used, uh, a business called I Automate.

A guy up local in Subiaco, um, Shannon Park. And so [00:35:00] again, you know, conceptually, we think we like to, you know, know where we wanna go, but we, we also know our limitations. And, uh, and you know, there's some really good consultants out there in this space now, not just the chaps that we've used. And, um, so it's, yeah, know your limitations, but, you know, not just accepting what you're doing, uh, is- Is the way it, it, it, it should continue to be.

You know, hubris is, hubris is, is the killer of most businesses, I think. And, um, yeah, we embrace it. You know, we, we embrace the fact that a client may go and do some ChatGPT on something around their investments or- Mm-hmm ... or whatever, and come and bring it to us and challenge us or, or, or, or advance themselves so that they become more sophisticated and equipped so that our conversations can now progress beyond just bringing someone up to speed with the basics of what's just been happening in [00:36:00] markets and why that's happened.

Okay, w- we know all of that stuff. Now, what are we doing going forward? You know, how do we plan forward based on all this? Um, and give me your expertise, because I know I've got limitations. Um- That's great. That's like... So we've, we had a previous podcast with Bernadette Smith. Mm. Uh, what came out of that was how she was saying that SavvyWise, uh, can help her team members actually learn- Yes

as they're going. And what you're talking about here is actually an AI helping your clients learn. Yeah. And you're embracing that because that is just gonna help you and them on that whole journey. Just takes everyone up the curve quicker, uh, to where you really wanna be. I mean, everybody's capacity constrained, right?

Yeah. Everyone you talk to. I can't get, I can't do it. I've... You know, I've got all these crap jobs I need to take care of. And, um, you know, we hear from everybody in our business, you know, so we look at offshoring, we look at AI, and say, "Well, can we get rid of [00:37:00] 10, 20, 30% of those bottom repeatable functions, and then have people spending that 10, 20, 30% more in front of clients?

Get on the phone." I mean, you know, accounting, law, financial advisory, you know, people don't leave your businesses because you, you made a slip-up on some tax advice, or you made a slip-up on some investment performance. They leave your business 'cause they're not feeling the love. Yes. Yeah. It, you know, and I, I don't say that flippantly.

And so if we can get people in front of our clients more, knowing our clients better, deeper, then that's for everyone's benefit, particularly, particularly our clients. 'Cause we just won't do anything unless it's gonna put clients in a better position. Mm. I love that. Um, other things that are outside of work that you're passionate about, that you'd love to just share?

Uh, well, I, I, I was a reasonable golfer. Um, I've had two hip operations, and that took my handicap from [00:38:00] seven down to, down to e- up to 18, and, and I'm kinda nipping that back down, and so that's a challenge, so, but, um- Golf's getting really popular. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like, I, I love, love golf. Uh- So- I can never play it, but it's getting- Yeah.

So the body's in decay, and my ambition is going up, and so there's- ... you know, that's, that's a good frustration to me. But I really enjoy that, you know. Um, and yeah, we're all the same. So yeah, y- as I say, like, you know, do I have enough time for my family that I'd really like? No. Do I have enough time for social?

No. Do I have enough time to expand the brain into things that... No. So yeah, e- everyone's the same, I think, around those things. Yeah. And, um, so yeah. But love it. You know, you wouldn't be in a better place than, than Perth, would you? I mean, notwithstanding your bit of the cracks of thunder this morning.

That's very true. So, like, why would, why would someone be picking Vantage? This isn't accountants- Yeah ... but, like, just any, any old Joe Blow out there. Yeah. Uh, why, why pick Vantage over [00:39:00] someone else? Um, listen, we've got a really experienced team. Um, you know, we call out relationships being critical. Uh, we've got, we've got service and people that can help all through the life cycle of somebody from, as I say, starting out, that you mentioned earlier, all the way through to, well, really end of life and, uh, and then everywhere in between.

Um, so we're not, we're not a business that's just there positioned for, you know, the ultra-high-net-worth, seven-figure investments, um- So we, we can help most people, um, but they need to be prepared to help themselves. That's the critical element. Um, so we've got great experience. Uh, we've got a great team. Um, and, uh, everybody has skin in the game in our business.

You know, we don't have any institutional ownership. Uh- Okay ... we're fiercely, um, uh, [00:40:00] self-determined. Um, and, uh, that's where we sit. And, and, you know, we love working with, with other professionals that have the same mindset. You know, how can we help our clients more? Uh, how can we de-risk their life? How can we get them to where they wanna get to, um, without them burning themselves and, and, and taking that off the rails, which happens so easily, um, when markets, um, aren't as supportive as they have been.

Mm-hmm. And but the people jump on the phone, the website? Yeah. Yeah, we've got, you know, our website. You'll probably put it, uh, on the, on your, your, your cast somewhere- Yep ... vantagewm.com.au. That's got a really easy access point. I'm sitting at the end of that, um, to direct traffic to whoever may be most appropriate.

And, you know, if you wanna, um, catch up, uh, just for a chat about how you're thinking about progressing, helping your clients with wealth, then, you know, really, really happy to [00:41:00] spend some time with you on that. If we can get involved, great. If not, you know, we'll be able to, you know, point you in the right direction.

So, yeah. What about the prospective employees out there coming, coming to you? How, how can they best prepare for, uh, an interview with Vantage? Employees? Yeah. Um, well, I, I, I... I mean, one of the key, one of the key, you know, culture is everything- For us. Um, I never used to believe that, but I'm just so, you know, and, and whatever.

Well, tell us, tell us why. Well- Why didn't you believe it? Well- And what's made you change? Well, I, I think, you know, when you come out of uni, and you're technical, and you just think about, you know, doing your business and you're just, "Ra, ra, ra," and you just think, "Well, just get it done," you know? But when you're, when you're running a business, you know, uh, if you don't have a safe, enjoyable, respectful environment for people to come into, doesn't matter what you're doing.

You know, if you're a coffee shop, if you're a financial planning business, if you're a legal firm, [00:42:00] accounting firm, do-do-do, you know, it, it doesn't matter what you pay them. Your pay is one thing, and I know everyone says it, but it, you know, there, there's so many extra reasons you give someone to leave or not s- not come through, through not really upholding.

So, uh, trust, respect, you know, enjoyment, responsibility. Trust, respect, enjoyment, responsibility. So, if you're gonna come and have an interview at Vantage, you know, we'll be asking you what those things mean to you. And, and, and we'll be asking you, um, "Can you give us some examples where, you know, you had to really apply those elements to, you, you know, deal with a situation?"

'Cause, you know, you got your uni degree, you got your CFP, you've got your do-do, your bits of paper, that's fantastic, and, you know, you may have had some good experience somewhere, but- But if you're not a person that can live and breathe those four elements, w- y- you can't work in our business. Um, and it's as simple as that.

You know, and I, and I don't say that [00:43:00] lightly. It's, um, you know, that's, that's, so that's really the best way to prepare for the conversation that we might be having with anyone that, that, that wants to come into our business. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. And I think people underest- underappreciate, like, how you are clearly putting this out and you've thought about it.

Mm. I can tell you thought about it, you really mean it. Mm. Whereas there's people that just go and we sorta say these things but don't really mean it. Like, I can hear the meaning, the passion- Yeah ... behind what you say there. Mm. Uh, so where do I go to get employed? No, but seriously. Well, mate, you're a bit, you're a bit a, a bit above my pay grade, unfortunately, so.

Yeah, um, thanks. Uh, where do we go? The website again, would it be if- Vantagewm.com.au. Yeah. Yeah. That's where they go. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I've really enjoyed this conversation. That's fantastic. I love this. Uh, now, do you wanna make, make any [00:44:00] sort of plugs, recommendations or, uh, some of your clients or, uh, to just give, give back to our audience or give back to some of your clients, some, throw some mentions out there?

No. We, we have to be careful about, um, throwing client names out into the marketplace- Yeah. No, fair enough. Yeah ... because back to, back to your comment on confidentiality and, and, and again- How about suppliers? Oh, listen, we, w- So you mentioned IA already ... we, we didn't get in, we didn't get into the weeds around our, our ecosystem, our, our area, but again, you know, we know, um, what we were put on this earth to do, which was be belly to belly to clients and use our ex- experience and technical smarts to plug in the right solutions.

Now, in the investment space, uh, you know, we've got some external asset consultants that give us some really deep, wide, uh, financial markets metrics to make sure that, you know, when we're building portfolios, they're stress-tested for GFCs, COVIDs, uh, black swan events, right? Uh, we, implementation of portfolios is really critical, so we use a, [00:45:00] a, a very high-end, uh, custodian called Hub24.

Um, and they have a, a really strong skillset there in, um, in portfolio, uh, implementation. Mm-hmm. Um, and so, you know, just as an example of the components that we use and manage and control, um, they're really important elements, uh, as a couple beyond, um, many. And, and listen, you know, Guy, Guy Oppolo at the I Automate, um, and Jamie there, uh, they've been fantastic.

They've been really balanced about how they've helped us, you know, not go too far but, you know, be measured and, uh, and test systems. Because, you know, whether, whether they've done it before or not, they're still breaking new ground every time they go and build a system, uh, and a process into a business.

So, um, stress testing that. Anyway, we can, we can go on. But, um, yeah. Thanks for sharing that. So it's, it's a really enjoyable... I mean, it's, there's, [00:46:00] there's been no better time. I can't remember being as excited as, as I am right now about the world that we're in with the AI competition, but then also the AI enablers in the business.

It's just a really s- really weird world where we're, we're feeding our competition with capability, but then employing it internally and bringing it in, into the tent as well. It's, it's just such a fascinating time. Um, so yeah, really enjoying it. That's brilliant. It works in well with my next point, which was to tell everyone to go out and trial SavvyWise of course.

100%. Hey, mate, um, I've got actually a little gift for you, uh, that, uh, we've got, which is this lovely self-watering plant- Brilliant. Nice ... uh, bought here at Bar Botanic. Oh. Our lovely location here- Yeah ... that everyone in Perth needs to get along to. Uh, I picked it because basically I would kill a plant like no tomorrow- Yeah

and that's something that I would love. So. So yeah. Um, hope you enjoy [00:47:00] that. Thank you very much, mate- Brilliant ... uh, for coming along. Absolutely. And, uh, until next time, enjoy the AI-assisted future of accounting starting right now with SavvyWise.